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	<title>Comments on: Useless "power savers": The saga continues</title>
	<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/</link>
	<description>the blog that is not dansdata.com</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha</generator>

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		<title>by: Matt W</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5085</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:25:55 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5085</guid>
					<description>No, No, No.
You're all missing the point. What we have discovered here is a whole new species of nutjob. The quasi-scientific, religious, rip-off merchant with added geo-bigotry and condescencion. 
I propose that Dan gets to name the species.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No, No, No.<br />
You're all missing the point. What we have discovered here is a whole new species of nutjob. The quasi-scientific, religious, rip-off merchant with added geo-bigotry and condescencion.<br />
I propose that Dan gets to name the species.
</p>
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		<title>by: phrantic</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5082</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:55:29 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5082</guid>
					<description>I'm going to link to him on Twitter. I wonder what will happen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I'm going to link to him on Twitter. I wonder what will happen?
</p>
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		<title>by: Bern</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5030</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:02:09 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5030</guid>
					<description>@james.k:  It's been far too many years since I did those introductory electrical engineering subjects at uni, and I understood this stuff so well I did mechanical engineering instead...  but from memory, improving the power factor doesn't change the amount of power the device consumes, but instead reduces the amount of power that needs to be pumped into the grid to be able to cope with that wacky waveform &amp;amp; dodgy phase angle that you get with poor power factors.  And household meters don't really notice power factor, anyway.

But more importantly, you've all missed the fact that Mr &quot;Use Power With Le$$ Cost&quot; Steven actually offered some good advice:  &lt;blockquote&gt;Perhaps,spending lesser time in your PC will save more power for you&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He's dead right.  Turning off your PC for an extra few minutes a day (or leaving it in sleep mode or something) &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; definitely save more power for you than one of his devices!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@james.k:  It's been far too many years since I did those introductory electrical engineering subjects at uni, and I understood this stuff so well I did mechanical engineering instead...  but from memory, improving the power factor doesn't change the amount of power the device consumes, but instead reduces the amount of power that needs to be pumped into the grid to be able to cope with that wacky waveform &amp; dodgy phase angle that you get with poor power factors.  And household meters don't really notice power factor, anyway.</p>
	<p>But more importantly, you've all missed the fact that Mr "Use Power With Le$$ Cost" Steven actually offered some good advice:<br />
<blockquote>Perhaps,spending lesser time in your PC will save more power for you</p></blockquote>
	<p>He's dead right.  Turning off your PC for an extra few minutes a day (or leaving it in sleep mode or something) <i>will</i> definitely save more power for you than one of his devices!
</p>
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		<title>by: james.k</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5029</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:21:13 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5029</guid>
					<description>Ah, won't 'fixing' the power factor of a device with lousy power factor make your electricity meter spin *faster*?  You're moving apparent power over to real power by improving the power factor... or have I over-thought this and got myself confused?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah, won't 'fixing' the power factor of a device with lousy power factor make your electricity meter spin *faster*?  You're moving apparent power over to real power by improving the power factor... or have I over-thought this and got myself confused?
</p>
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		<title>by: dabrett</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5028</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:45:23 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5028</guid>
					<description>Glad to see I'm not the only person who spotted that Mr &quot;please don't link to my site&quot; Cleverpants couldn't help but include a link to his site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Glad to see I'm not the only person who spotted that Mr "please don't link to my site" Cleverpants couldn't help but include a link to his site.
</p>
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		<title>by: A man from the Internet</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5026</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:37:31 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5026</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;best regards,
Steven
Use Power With Le$$ Cost
http://www.epowersaver.com&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Alert!  Alert!  Additional unauthorised link!  You must therefore attack yourself with furious anger and great vengeance.

QED

*vanishes in a puff of logic*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>best regards,<br />
Steven<br />
Use Power With Le$$ Cost<br />
<a href='http://www.epowersaver.com' rel='nofollow'>http://www.epowersaver.com</a></p></blockquote>
	<p>Alert!  Alert!  Additional unauthorised link!  You must therefore attack yourself with furious anger and great vengeance.</p>
	<p>QED</p>
	<p>*vanishes in a puff of logic*
</p>
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		<title>by: j</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5025</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:44:31 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5025</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;i feel sorry if the product does not work in your region&lt;/i&gt;

This line is particularly interesting. You're suggesting that the device does not work for Australia?

In which regions &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; your device work, pray tell?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>i feel sorry if the product does not work in your region</i></p>
	<p>This line is particularly interesting. You're suggesting that the device does not work for Australia?</p>
	<p>In which regions <i>does</i> your device work, pray tell?
</p>
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		<title>by: pompomtom</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5024</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:07:45 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5024</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;All we asked is not to link your site to our website without any permission. Is that alot of thing to ask from you?&lt;/i&gt;

Where did people get this idea that one should have permission to make a link?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>All we asked is not to link your site to our website without any permission. Is that alot of thing to ask from you?</i></p>
	<p>Where did people get this idea that one should have permission to make a link?
</p>
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		<title>by: Daniel Rutter</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5023</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:00:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5023</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You do not get free product by asking them to send you one for test and to prove the product claim.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dansdata.com/review.htm&quot;&gt;yes I do&lt;/a&gt;. Happens all the time. I've written &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dansdata.com/altindex.html&quot;&gt;literally &lt;b&gt;hundreds&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt; of product reviews, and almost all of them are of products that the manufacturer sent me for free. Honestly, my main problem these days is that I've got far &lt;b&gt;too much&lt;/b&gt; review product awaiting my attention. But I'd make space for you! 

Most of the products I reviewed over the years weren't blatantly fraudulent, of course; I wasn't seeing &lt;b&gt;if&lt;/b&gt; they worked, but how &lt;b&gt;well&lt;/b&gt; they worked, how they stacked up against the competition, et cetera. 

But I have reviewed a few products that're completely worthless. See, for instance, the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dansdata.com/batterylife.htm&quot;&gt;Batterylife Activator&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dansdata.com/wineclip.htm&quot;&gt;The Wine Clip&lt;/a&gt;. I even got to have a look at an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dansdata.com/empower.htm&quot;&gt;EMPower Modulator&lt;/a&gt; once.

As other commenters have pointed out above, if you're so all-fired enthusiastic about &quot;Certified Labs&quot;, then get thyself to one and have them see whether your product actually works.

But you don't need a Certified Anything to see if it works. Plug something that the &quot;power saver&quot; is meant to help with into the wall in a house without also plugging in the power saver, make sure nothing else in the house is drawing power (including sneaky stuff like a water heater hiding above the ceiling...), then go outside and time how long it takes for the spinning disk (or whatever the electricity meter's smallest-denomination display is - the digit at the extreme right, for a digital meter) to increment a few steps.

Next, plug your &quot;power saver&quot; into the outlet right next to the test device, then go outside and time the power consumption again.

This technique is a little time-consuming, and can only practically be used with devices that draw power constantly (so, not things like refrigerators), but it gets you directly to the heart of the matter - whether your device will actually save money for normal electricity users.

If you take a shortcut by using an inline multimeter, clamp-meter or one of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot041.htm&quot;&gt;cheap power meters&lt;/a&gt; that're all over the place these days, you run the risk of measuring apparent power - simple DC-style volts times amps - not the real power that household electricity meters actually measure. Many, &lt;b&gt;many&lt;/b&gt; people have made this mistake, including a quite remarkable number of people who, because of this error, think they've invented an electrical perpetual motion machine (...which will surely start working properly as soon as they get rid of whatever it is that's making it grind to a halt every time...).

&lt;blockquote&gt;If your GOD permits all this,by all means follow the way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh, man - are you ever talking to the wrong guy.

I must thank you, though, for taking this unusual religious tack, rather than immediately shouting at me about lawsuits. I suspect that this, if nothing else, puts you well ahead of many of your competitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>You do not get free product by asking them to send you one for test and to prove the product claim.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Actually, <a href="http://www.dansdata.com/review.htm">yes I do</a>. Happens all the time. I've written <a href="http://www.dansdata.com/altindex.html">literally <b>hundreds</b></a> of product reviews, and almost all of them are of products that the manufacturer sent me for free. Honestly, my main problem these days is that I've got far <b>too much</b> review product awaiting my attention. But I'd make space for you! </p>
	<p>Most of the products I reviewed over the years weren't blatantly fraudulent, of course; I wasn't seeing <b>if</b> they worked, but how <b>well</b> they worked, how they stacked up against the competition, et cetera. </p>
	<p>But I have reviewed a few products that're completely worthless. See, for instance, the <a href="http://www.dansdata.com/batterylife.htm">Batterylife Activator</a> and <a href="http://www.dansdata.com/wineclip.htm">The Wine Clip</a>. I even got to have a look at an <a href="http://www.dansdata.com/empower.htm">EMPower Modulator</a> once.</p>
	<p>As other commenters have pointed out above, if you're so all-fired enthusiastic about "Certified Labs", then get thyself to one and have them see whether your product actually works.</p>
	<p>But you don't need a Certified Anything to see if it works. Plug something that the "power saver" is meant to help with into the wall in a house without also plugging in the power saver, make sure nothing else in the house is drawing power (including sneaky stuff like a water heater hiding above the ceiling...), then go outside and time how long it takes for the spinning disk (or whatever the electricity meter's smallest-denomination display is - the digit at the extreme right, for a digital meter) to increment a few steps.</p>
	<p>Next, plug your "power saver" into the outlet right next to the test device, then go outside and time the power consumption again.</p>
	<p>This technique is a little time-consuming, and can only practically be used with devices that draw power constantly (so, not things like refrigerators), but it gets you directly to the heart of the matter - whether your device will actually save money for normal electricity users.</p>
	<p>If you take a shortcut by using an inline multimeter, clamp-meter or one of the <a href="http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot041.htm">cheap power meters</a> that're all over the place these days, you run the risk of measuring apparent power - simple DC-style volts times amps - not the real power that household electricity meters actually measure. Many, <b>many</b> people have made this mistake, including a quite remarkable number of people who, because of this error, think they've invented an electrical perpetual motion machine (...which will surely start working properly as soon as they get rid of whatever it is that's making it grind to a halt every time...).</p>
	<blockquote><p>If your GOD permits all this,by all means follow the way.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Oh, man - are you ever talking to the wrong guy.</p>
	<p>I must thank you, though, for taking this unusual religious tack, rather than immediately shouting at me about lawsuits. I suspect that this, if nothing else, puts you well ahead of many of your competitors.
</p>
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		<title>by: speedweasel</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5022</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:18:04 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/06/16/useless-power-savers-the-saga-continues/#comment-5022</guid>
					<description>Hi Steven,

You need to realise that it is you, and people like you that are the problem here, not Dan.  If you insist on selling worthless products to an unsuspecting public then you are preying on people’s ignorance and should damn well expect to be called on your unethical behaviour, especially in the no-holds-barred, public arena of the Internet!

However you might try to rationalise your behaviour or attempt to discredit Dan’s motives for calling you on your bullshit, it remains clear to anyone with the slightest education in these things that you are either a fraud or a fool.  Dan is doing a public service by taking you to task on your outrageous claims for this device.

Dan has presented nothing but demonstrable facts and empirical evidence.  This was not an opinion piece. His observations are backed by well understood scientific principles (well, *we* understand them anyway.)  

Now, instead of continuing with your gormless sulking, why not refute Dan’s argument by providing us with *evidence* that your product works as advertised.  That’s OK, I’ll wait…
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hi Steven,</p>
	<p>You need to realise that it is you, and people like you that are the problem here, not Dan.  If you insist on selling worthless products to an unsuspecting public then you are preying on people’s ignorance and should damn well expect to be called on your unethical behaviour, especially in the no-holds-barred, public arena of the Internet!</p>
	<p>However you might try to rationalise your behaviour or attempt to discredit Dan’s motives for calling you on your bullshit, it remains clear to anyone with the slightest education in these things that you are either a fraud or a fool.  Dan is doing a public service by taking you to task on your outrageous claims for this device.</p>
	<p>Dan has presented nothing but demonstrable facts and empirical evidence.  This was not an opinion piece. His observations are backed by well understood scientific principles (well, *we* understand them anyway.)  </p>
	<p>Now, instead of continuing with your gormless sulking, why not refute Dan’s argument by providing us with *evidence* that your product works as advertised.  That’s OK, I’ll wait…
</p>
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