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	<title>Comments on: Science Sunday</title>
	<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/</link>
	<description>the blog that is not dansdata.com</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Jonadab</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4380</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4380</guid>
					<description>&amp;gt; It’s a wonder the intelligent design crowd 
&amp;gt; don’t crow loudly about how strange water is.

ICR does talk about that (or has in the past at any rate), but frankly it's only one of numerous factors that make Earth uniquely suited to life as we know it (carbon-chain-based blah blah blah).  Earth's atmosphere is rare, for instance, in being adequate to support photosynthesis and respiration but transparent enough to allow enough light to penetrate to support photosynthesis, and to allow the stars to be seen (which is not so important for life but crucial for civilization).  Our atmosphere also is rare in having enough diatomic oxygen (a powerful oxidizer) to support respiration but not quite enough to be really dangerous chemically (a few percentage points more would be quite hazardous).  Once you start down that line of reasoning, the list becomes endless.  The sun is just right.  The moon is just right.  Earth's gravity is just right.  The ratios of the various elements is just right, which astronomers believe is not so true in most of the galaxy (though objectively we don't really know that for sure).  The distance from the Sun to the Earth is absolutely perfect.  The *amount* of liquid water is enough to create large oceans but not so much as to cover the whole surface.  Et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

Of course you can interpret those data in various ways.  You can say, &quot;Well, duh, it was designed that way&quot;, or you can say, &quot;It's perfect for us because we evolved and adapted under those conditions&quot;.  Your conclusions depend not so much on the data as on the implicit assumptions you make going in.  In other words, people believe what they want to believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&gt; It’s a wonder the intelligent design crowd<br />
&gt; don’t crow loudly about how strange water is.</p>
	<p>ICR does talk about that (or has in the past at any rate), but frankly it's only one of numerous factors that make Earth uniquely suited to life as we know it (carbon-chain-based blah blah blah).  Earth's atmosphere is rare, for instance, in being adequate to support photosynthesis and respiration but transparent enough to allow enough light to penetrate to support photosynthesis, and to allow the stars to be seen (which is not so important for life but crucial for civilization).  Our atmosphere also is rare in having enough diatomic oxygen (a powerful oxidizer) to support respiration but not quite enough to be really dangerous chemically (a few percentage points more would be quite hazardous).  Once you start down that line of reasoning, the list becomes endless.  The sun is just right.  The moon is just right.  Earth's gravity is just right.  The ratios of the various elements is just right, which astronomers believe is not so true in most of the galaxy (though objectively we don't really know that for sure).  The distance from the Sun to the Earth is absolutely perfect.  The *amount* of liquid water is enough to create large oceans but not so much as to cover the whole surface.  Et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.</p>
	<p>Of course you can interpret those data in various ways.  You can say, "Well, duh, it was designed that way", or you can say, "It's perfect for us because we evolved and adapted under those conditions".  Your conclusions depend not so much on the data as on the implicit assumptions you make going in.  In other words, people believe what they want to believe.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eats Big Dinners</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4319</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4319</guid>
					<description>Here's an interesting and detailed page on the anomalies of water ...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Here's an interesting and detailed page on the anomalies of water ...</p>
	<p><a href="http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html" rel="nofollow"><a href='http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html' rel='nofollow'>http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html</a></a>
</p>
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		<title>by: dr_w00t</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4317</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4317</guid>
					<description>It's a wonder the intelligent design crowd don't crow loudly about how strange water is. Maybe because science is the devil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It's a wonder the intelligent design crowd don't crow loudly about how strange water is. Maybe because science is the devil.
</p>
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		<title>by: Daniel Rutter</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4314</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4314</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;That means that it will freeze at the top first, and provide a not-insignificant insulation to the layers of liquid water beneath it&lt;/i&gt;

...which played a big role in the development of life on this planet. But we can't, of course, say for sure that the planet would be lifeless if water didn't behave in the way that it does. Perhaps land-based life would have developed by itself, perhaps water-based life would have developed when and where liquid water could still be found - deep oceans (climate permitting), underground water pockets, et cetera.

I think it's fair to say, however, that if the only life on a planet exists in water pockets deep underground, that life's probably not going to evolve sentience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>That means that it will freeze at the top first, and provide a not-insignificant insulation to the layers of liquid water beneath it</i></p>
	<p>...which played a big role in the development of life on this planet. But we can't, of course, say for sure that the planet would be lifeless if water didn't behave in the way that it does. Perhaps land-based life would have developed by itself, perhaps water-based life would have developed when and where liquid water could still be found - deep oceans (climate permitting), underground water pockets, et cetera.</p>
	<p>I think it's fair to say, however, that if the only life on a planet exists in water pockets deep underground, that life's probably not going to evolve sentience.
</p>
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		<title>by: shimavak</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4313</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4313</guid>
					<description>@Kagato

The basic idea is that, since water has its highest density (at ST) around 277 K, as you cool a large body of water the cold stuff will sink.  As soon as the whole thing (baring thermal layers, of course) reaches 277K, the colder water will no longer sink.  That means that it will freeze at the top first, and provide a not-insignificant insulation to the layers of liquid water beneath it.  Thus, rather than the whole body of water freezing solid by the coldest stuffs continually sinking, you end up with just a crust freezing, and the rest staying a toasty 277K!

Hope that explains it somewhat...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@Kagato</p>
	<p>The basic idea is that, since water has its highest density (at ST) around 277 K, as you cool a large body of water the cold stuff will sink.  As soon as the whole thing (baring thermal layers, of course) reaches 277K, the colder water will no longer sink.  That means that it will freeze at the top first, and provide a not-insignificant insulation to the layers of liquid water beneath it.  Thus, rather than the whole body of water freezing solid by the coldest stuffs continually sinking, you end up with just a crust freezing, and the rest staying a toasty 277K!</p>
	<p>Hope that explains it somewhat...
</p>
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		<title>by: j</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4312</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4312</guid>
					<description>@Steven
Not to nitpick further, but liquid water isn't ice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@Steven<br />
Not to nitpick further, but liquid water isn't ice.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kagato</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4311</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4311</guid>
					<description>&quot;if ice were more dense than water, life on earth would never have formed.&quot;

That's interesting. Can you elaborate on that, or point me towards further reading?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>"if ice were more dense than water, life on earth would never have formed."</p>
	<p>That's interesting. Can you elaborate on that, or point me towards further reading?
</p>
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		<title>by: xuth</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4310</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4310</guid>
					<description>Dan,
You express concern about not conducting over surface water.  Wouldn't the easiest way reduce this be to freeze two wires/probes into a block of ice such that the insulation is embedded in the ice.  Then leave the ice in the freezer (with the wires sticking out) so that the heat transfer from the wire doesn't melt the ice and try to measure the resistance then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dan,<br />
You express concern about not conducting over surface water.  Wouldn't the easiest way reduce this be to freeze two wires/probes into a block of ice such that the insulation is embedded in the ice.  Then leave the ice in the freezer (with the wires sticking out) so that the heat transfer from the wire doesn't melt the ice and try to measure the resistance then.
</p>
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		<title>by: Steven Den Beste</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4309</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4309</guid>
					<description>You mentioned that water is amazing and weird. 'Tis true, and by far the most amazing thing about it is that ice is less dense than liquid water. Few substances are like that, and if ice were more dense than water, life on earth would never have formed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You mentioned that water is amazing and weird. 'Tis true, and by far the most amazing thing about it is that ice is less dense than liquid water. Few substances are like that, and if ice were more dense than water, life on earth would never have formed.
</p>
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		<title>by: Steven Den Beste</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4308</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/02/15/science-sunday/#comment-4308</guid>
					<description>Not to nitpick, but I'll nitpick: the charge carriers in liquid water are hydronium ions, (H3O+) and hydroxyl ions (HO-).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not to nitpick, but I'll nitpick: the charge carriers in liquid water are hydronium ions, (H3O+) and hydroxyl ions (HO-).</p>
	<p><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium</a><br />
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl</a>
</p>
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