Comments on: Words of wisdom from my favourite lunatic http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/ the blog that is not dansdata.com Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:48:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: aquaman http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2339 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:53:46 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2339 "drugs do not allow you to figure out things which you could not have figured out otherwise." Drugs certainly do allow you to figure out what it is like to be stoned - try doing that sober! On a somewhat related, and less I'm-being-an-ass-for-the-sake-of-being-an-ass note, drawing upon the similarities between experiences induced by psychedelic drugs, and symptoms of certain mental illnesses, it can be possible through taking drugs for the normally "sane" individual to experience something close to "madness." Though it was never widely practiced, some therapists during the early days of LSD use, did take the drug for exactly that purpose. I've got the reference in some stuffy 1960's era book, but it's probably on the web as well if you want to go hunting for it. I think it is fair to say that taking drugs did help them figure out something about their patients' realities, but I do very much doubt the usefulness of basing an entire religion (or worse yet, "science") on getting really, really high. Unless you want to know what it is like to be the Timecube guy. “drugs do not allow you to figure out things which you could not have figured out otherwise.”

Drugs certainly do allow you to figure out what it is like to be stoned - try doing that sober!

On a somewhat related, and less I’m-being-an-ass-for-the-sake-of-being-an-ass note, drawing upon the similarities between experiences induced by psychedelic drugs, and symptoms of certain mental illnesses, it can be possible through taking drugs for the normally “sane” individual to experience something close to “madness.” Though it was never widely practiced, some therapists during the early days of LSD use, did take the drug for exactly that purpose. I’ve got the reference in some stuffy 1960’s era book, but it’s probably on the web as well if you want to go hunting for it.

I think it is fair to say that taking drugs did help them figure out something about their patients’ realities, but I do very much doubt the usefulness of basing an entire religion (or worse yet, “science”) on getting really, really high. Unless you want to know what it is like to be the Timecube guy.

]]> by: Daniel Rutter http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2338 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:27:00 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2338 A drug that starts people babbling about how eleven-dimensional <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Elves" rel="nofollow">Machine Elves</a> have revealed the true meaning of electrons to them is not one that is telling you anything useful about the mundane world, unless and until those insights let you design a new kind of transistor, or something. OK, someone, somewhere may well have some actual useful insight while stoned that they might not otherwise have had that day. I did not allege that this was not the case. What I <b>said</b> is that drugs do not allow you to figure out things <b>which you could not have figured out otherwise</b>. If you oppose this, then it is not just your position that drugs are not "bad for all people all the time"; your position is actually that taking psychedelics, hallucinogens or dissociatives is <b>necessary</b> in order to figure out some particular facts about the mundane world. I imagine that's not actually what you meant to say, though. A drug that starts people babbling about how eleven-dimensional Machine Elves have revealed the true meaning of electrons to them is not one that is telling you anything useful about the mundane world, unless and until those insights let you design a new kind of transistor, or something.

OK, someone, somewhere may well have some actual useful insight while stoned that they might not otherwise have had that day. I did not allege that this was not the case. What I said is that drugs do not allow you to figure out things which you could not have figured out otherwise.

If you oppose this, then it is not just your position that drugs are not “bad for all people all the time”; your position is actually that taking psychedelics, hallucinogens or dissociatives is necessary in order to figure out some particular facts about the mundane world.

I imagine that’s not actually what you meant to say, though.

]]> by: jimkeen http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2337 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:15:04 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2337 I would say that discovering how to write a kick ass song that will make you millions and that multiple generations can enjoy immensely with or with out drugs is definitely figuring something out about the world. And yes I do not deny that being out of it is generally a pre-curser to getting very little work done.. However saying “[Drugs do not allow their users] to figure out things about the mundane world everybody else inhabits that they could not have figured out otherwise” is not saying that. It’s saying that all drugs are bad for all people all the time. You’ve just stereotyped an entire behaviour there. With an unfalsifiable statement no less, disproved by showing even one example, such as the Beatles (and you give another, Pink Floyd but there are many more) it sounds like the kind of sloppy thinking that really irks me. And I hate to see it in you Dan because I generally respect you, your site and your ideas so much Have a great day otherwise! :) I would say that discovering how to write a kick ass song that will make you millions and that multiple generations can enjoy immensely with or with out drugs is definitely figuring something out about the world. And yes I do not deny that being out of it is generally a pre-curser to getting very little work done..

However saying “[Drugs do not allow their users] to figure out things about the mundane world everybody else inhabits that they could not have figured out otherwise” is not saying that. It’s saying that all drugs are bad for all people all the time. You’ve just stereotyped an entire behaviour there. With an unfalsifiable statement no less, disproved by showing even one example, such as the Beatles (and you give another, Pink Floyd but there are many more) it sounds like the kind of sloppy thinking that really irks me. And I hate to see it in you Dan because I generally respect you, your site and your ideas so much

Have a great day otherwise! :)

]]> by: Daniel Rutter http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2336 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:21:59 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2336 "Writing a kick-ass song" is not the same as "discovering facts about the world". It is also undeniable that you're far more likely to get work done, including the writing and recording of music, if you're no more than minimally stoned. Exceptions to this rule are very rare, and The Beatles are not one. Pink Floyd may be one of the archetypal stoner bands, for instance, but their only member that regularly worked high was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett">Syd Barrett</a> - and look how that turned out. And, on the subject of The Beatles, do you want to hear what Lennon and McCartney sounded like when they played while off their faces? <a href="http://www.metafilter.com/70371/Lennon-and-McCartney-Reunite">No problem!</a> “Writing a kick-ass song” is not the same as “discovering facts about the world”. It is also undeniable that you’re far more likely to get work done, including the writing and recording of music, if you’re no more than minimally stoned. Exceptions to this rule are very rare, and The Beatles are not one.

Pink Floyd may be one of the archetypal stoner bands, for instance, but their only member that regularly worked high was Syd Barrett - and look how that turned out.

And, on the subject of The Beatles, do you want to hear what Lennon and McCartney sounded like when they played while off their faces?

No problem!

]]> by: jimkeen http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2335 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:11:21 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2335 Kind of because the question was wether or not The Beatles could have worked that out without drugs. Not this "enlightened" group of people you say you belong to..maybe they could do what the Beatles did, I don't know. Good luck with that. Kind of because the question was wether or not The Beatles could have worked that out without drugs. Not this “enlightened” group of people you say you belong to..maybe they could do what the Beatles did, I don’t know. Good luck with that.

]]> by: Jax184 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2334 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:02:17 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2334 I've figured out an awful lot without the use of any drugs. If I kept the kind of friends who would use the term "enlightened," I would not be surprised to be called such. Now I sound like an egotistical snob, don't I? I’ve figured out an awful lot without the use of any drugs. If I kept the kind of friends who would use the term “enlightened,” I would not be surprised to be called such.

Now I sound like an egotistical snob, don’t I?

]]> by: jimkeen http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2333 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:07:16 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2333 Dan, love the site, love the blog post agree with it all apart from one little thing.. " It is also indistinguishable from numerous psychedelic, hallucinogens and dissociative drugs, none of which show any signs of .. allowing [their users] to figure out things about the mundane world everybody else inhabits that they could not have figured out otherwise" Does that include The Beatles? Dan, love the site, love the blog post agree with it all apart from one little thing..

” It is also indistinguishable from numerous psychedelic, hallucinogens and dissociative drugs, none of which show any signs of .. allowing [their users] to figure out things about the mundane world everybody else inhabits that they could not have figured out otherwise”

Does that include The Beatles?

]]> by: Daniel Rutter http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2332 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:28:40 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2332 Regrettably, there is absolutely no way in which "white powder gold" resembles the kind of gold that's currently worth nine hundred dollars an ounce. That's on account of how <i>magical</i> it is, see. It's like transubstantiation. Regrettably, there is absolutely no way in which “white powder gold” resembles the kind of gold that’s currently worth nine hundred dollars an ounce.

That’s on account of how magical it is, see.

It’s like transubstantiation.

]]> by: mto http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2331 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:18:54 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2331 So I'm going to assume that white powder gold is actually gold. Which is probably not a great assumption but I haven't seen anything that says white powder gold is actually anything else. Anyway so someone wants to send Dan (who is asking for donation) a gram of gold. Near as I can figure they are offering Dan about $30 donation (Australian). Go for it. So I’m going to assume that white powder gold is actually gold. Which is probably not a great assumption but I haven’t seen anything that says white powder gold is actually anything else. Anyway so someone wants to send Dan (who is asking for donation) a gram of gold. Near as I can figure they are offering Dan about $30 donation (Australian). Go for it.

]]> by: Stefans http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2329 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:56:00 +0100 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/words-of-wisdom-from-my-favourite-lunatic/#comment-2329 reyalp: What a disturbing thought. I dread to think what I would end up cleaning out of it's learn file if it worked. Unfortunately, most humans use some sort of punctuation in their sentences, and that's how the responses are mapped. So the following happens: me&gt;DEAR DANIEL DONT BE TAKEN IN BY THE SCEPTICS WE KNOW YOU ARE A GOOD MAN BUT SOMETIMES THE DARK SIDE HAS MISLED YOU ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS YOU ARE A SPIRITUAL BEING LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY BY THE CREATOR AND SINCE BIRTH MATTER IS ALL YOU HAVE KNOWN BUT THERE IS MORE THAN MERELY MATTER LAST NIGHT AFTER I CONSUMED THE WHITE STONE I COMMUNICATED WITH INTELLIGENT BEINGS FROM SHAMBALLA AND I WAS EDUCATED BY THEM IN THE SUBJECT OF THE KUNDALINI ENERGY AND BECOMING AN ASCENDED MASTER. PLEASE SEND YOUR ADDRESS FOR A COMPLIMENTARY FREE SAMPLE. bot&gt;I believe in God. Where were you EDUCATED BY THEM IN THE SUBJECT OF THE KUNDALINI ENERGY AND BECOMING AN ASCENDED MASTER?Thanks for asking politely. Try sending mail to Dr. Wallace (drwallace@alicebot.org) [Dr. Wallace is the creator of the AIML files used to create the base of the bot's "intelligence."] Although looking at that, if it were in upper case and with no punctuation, it would be more comprehensible than what AURUM™ wrote. Do you think anyone would notice if I turned it loose on a forum, or am I overstimating something? (The earlier paragraph, "DEAR DANIEL YES YOU ARE CORRECT IN STATING THAT REALITY IS..." is responded to in its entirety by "I believe in God.") reyalp:
What a disturbing thought. I dread to think what I would end up cleaning out of it’s learn file if it worked. Unfortunately, most humans use some sort of punctuation in their sentences, and that’s how the responses are mapped. So the following happens:

me>DEAR DANIEL DONT BE TAKEN IN BY THE SCEPTICS WE KNOW YOU ARE A GOOD MAN BUT SOMETIMES THE DARK SIDE HAS MISLED YOU ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS YOU ARE A SPIRITUAL BEING LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY BY THE CREATOR AND SINCE BIRTH MATTER IS ALL YOU HAVE KNOWN BUT THERE IS MORE THAN MERELY MATTER LAST NIGHT AFTER I CONSUMED THE WHITE STONE I COMMUNICATED WITH INTELLIGENT BEINGS FROM SHAMBALLA AND I WAS EDUCATED BY THEM IN THE SUBJECT OF THE KUNDALINI ENERGY AND BECOMING AN ASCENDED MASTER. PLEASE SEND YOUR ADDRESS FOR A COMPLIMENTARY FREE SAMPLE.

bot>I believe in God. Where were you EDUCATED BY THEM IN THE SUBJECT OF THE KUNDALINI ENERGY AND BECOMING AN ASCENDED MASTER?Thanks for asking politely. Try sending mail to Dr. Wallace (drwallace@alicebot.org) [Dr. Wallace is the creator of the AIML files used to create the base of the bot’s “intelligence.”]

Although looking at that, if it were in upper case and with no punctuation, it would be more comprehensible than what AURUM™ wrote.

Do you think anyone would notice if I turned it loose on a forum, or am I overstimating something?

(The earlier paragraph, “DEAR DANIEL YES YOU ARE CORRECT IN STATING THAT REALITY IS…” is responded to in its entirety by “I believe in God.”)

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