Comments on: The best Firepower can manage http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/ the blog that is not dansdata.com Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:28:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: troglobyte http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2096 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:04:59 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2096 Actually, most car engines run slightly "rich" (with a bit of unburned fuel) at wide open throttle. However, this is for a good reason - it keeps cylinder temperatures down, and provides a safety margin when the engine is running at full throttle. Running lean (with an excess of oxygen) can cause overheating and lots of engine damage very quickly - tuners with turbo'd cars and small injectors blow up their engines quite quickly. Even if Firepower's product did make it so there's no more unburned fuel running at wide-open throttle, though, it still wouldn't be worth buying. Not only would it work only when the engine is running at full throttle (which is to say, not often at all), it would have some pretty nasty problems. First, you'd be throwing out your safety margin, and as any engineer could tell you, that's a pretty bad idea. Second, in order to actually burn the fuel, it would need to provide oxygen (or something else that would react explosively). Since it's just a little tablet, it'd have to provide a lot of energy density, too. The result would be hilariously unsafe. Gasoline is already fairly dangerous in a wreck, where it has to leak out of the tank and be exposed to air before it can burn. If there was some kind of powerful oxidizer inside the fuel tank, it wouldn't burn so much as explode very, very violently. It's the difference between a merry fire and a fuel-air explosive capable of leveling brick buildings. Actually, most car engines run slightly "rich" (with a bit of unburned fuel) at wide open throttle. However, this is for a good reason - it keeps cylinder temperatures down, and provides a safety margin when the engine is running at full throttle. Running lean (with an excess of oxygen) can cause overheating and lots of engine damage very quickly - tuners with turbo'd cars and small injectors blow up their engines quite quickly.

Even if Firepower's product did make it so there's no more unburned fuel running at wide-open throttle, though, it still wouldn't be worth buying. Not only would it work only when the engine is running at full throttle (which is to say, not often at all), it would have some pretty nasty problems.

First, you'd be throwing out your safety margin, and as any engineer could tell you, that's a pretty bad idea. Second, in order to actually burn the fuel, it would need to provide oxygen (or something else that would react explosively). Since it's just a little tablet, it'd have to provide a lot of energy density, too.

The result would be hilariously unsafe. Gasoline is already fairly dangerous in a wreck, where it has to leak out of the tank and be exposed to air before it can burn. If there was some kind of powerful oxidizer inside the fuel tank, it wouldn't burn so much as explode very, very violently. It's the difference between a merry fire and a fuel-air explosive capable of leveling brick buildings.

]]> by: reyalp http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2095 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:49:00 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2095 Joe, the cat does convert HC but the amounts are small. Wikipedia has the details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter It should also be noted that if Firepower did significantly reduce the (already small) HC component, it would probably throw off the other two reactions, potentially increasing NOx pollution. Modern emission controls systems are very finely tuned to produce the minimum overall pollution, and rely on the ECU to actively maintain the optimum conditions. You do actually want to do a blind/placebo controlled test, because people can change their behavior based on what they expect. This may sound strange for something a driving efficiency test, but it's well proven. That's assuming you are actually driving around. If you just plunk it on a dyno and run at a fixed throttle setting or a mechanically controlled profile, you are probably OK. Joe, the cat does convert HC but the amounts are small. Wikipedia has the details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

It should also be noted that if Firepower did significantly reduce the (already small) HC component, it would probably throw off the other two reactions, potentially increasing NOx pollution.

Modern emission controls systems are very finely tuned to produce the minimum overall pollution, and rely on the ECU to actively maintain the optimum conditions.

You do actually want to do a blind/placebo controlled test, because people can change their behavior based on what they expect. This may sound strange for something a driving efficiency test, but it's well proven. That's assuming you are actually driving around. If you just plunk it on a dyno and run at a fixed throttle setting or a mechanically controlled profile, you are probably OK.

]]> by: corinoco http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2093 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:19:41 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2093 My car uses fuel-injection to get Burnable Fossils(tm) in the cylinders. Mentioning the word 'gel' and 'petrol' and then 'fuel injection nozzle' makes me think of the following equation: (Petrol * Gel) + Fuel_Injector = Expensive_Trip_To_Mechanic Do they offer to replace your engine if their product completely ruins yours? I could do with a new engine... My car uses fuel-injection to get Burnable Fossils(tm) in the cylinders.

Mentioning the word 'gel' and 'petrol' and then 'fuel injection nozzle' makes me think of the following equation:

(Petrol * Gel) + Fuel_Injector = Expensive_Trip_To_Mechanic

Do they offer to replace your engine if their product completely ruins yours? I could do with a new engine...

]]> by: loseweightslow http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2092 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:07:20 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2092 It does get annoying when people have an unsubstantiated belief in something they have no proof of. My personal favorite is Advanced Driver Training (the brake and skid kind). People think it Just Must Work even after you show them the reports show that it does nothing. Actually, it makes attendees slightly worse but only by a miniscule amount not worth talking about. I dont know where Dan gets his energy from to combat these people. It does get annoying when people have an unsubstantiated belief in something they have no proof of. My personal favorite is Advanced Driver Training (the brake and skid kind). People think it Just Must Work even after you show them the reports show that it does nothing. Actually, it makes attendees slightly worse but only by a miniscule amount not worth talking about. I dont know where Dan gets his energy from to combat these people.

]]> by: Joe Bloggs http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2091 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:57:30 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2091 You don't need placebos for testing these pills--unless you think your car might be prone to thinking 'ahh! I took these Firepower pills and now I feel all better! I'm going to run much more efficiently now!' :) :) Dan, Wouldn't THC be lowered by the catalytic converter? I know you say that it can't convert large amounts of fuel without burning up, but still it'd be interesting to know how much. Or is the converter removed from the equation for the test? You don't need placebos for testing these pills--unless you think your car might be prone to thinking 'ahh! I took these Firepower pills and now I feel all better! I'm going to run much more efficiently now!' :) :)

Dan,
Wouldn't THC be lowered by the catalytic converter? I know you say that it can't convert large amounts of fuel without burning up, but still it'd be interesting to know how much.

Or is the converter removed from the equation for the test?

]]> by: Robert Synnott http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2090 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:18 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2090 <strong>Two more companies go mad on Internet</strong> As you know, I am a great connoisseur of Internet mad people.I have a couple for you today.The first is an Irish company called Blueface, who do VOIP (possibly pronounced voyp; Voice Over IP). They found an old post on... Two more companies go mad on Internet

As you know, I am a great connoisseur of Internet mad people.I have a couple for you today.The first is an Irish company called Blueface, who do VOIP (possibly pronounced voyp; Voice Over IP). They found an old post on...

]]> by: fnaah http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2089 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:28:43 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2089 Better yet - take the free samples, make up some placebos, *then* hand two batches to someone for testing and see if there's a difference. Better yet - take the free samples, make up some placebos, *then* hand two batches to someone for testing and see if there's a difference.

]]> by: reyalp http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2087 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:13:05 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2087 If you can get a sample without signing some odious agreement, you might as well. Maybe you could just pass them on to the AAA or a local technical school or something. Amusingly, this latest collection of posts has brought out a nice collection of snake-oil ads from google: "Run Your Car With Water Find Out How to Double Gas Mileage. Drive Your Car On Water." "The Cyclone Fuel Saver $39.95 Save 15% on fuel"... didn't you rant about that one already ? If you can get a sample without signing some odious agreement, you might as well. Maybe you could just pass them on to the AAA or a local technical school or something.

Amusingly, this latest collection of posts has brought out a nice collection of snake-oil ads from google:
"Run Your Car With Water Find Out How to Double Gas Mileage. Drive Your Car On Water."

"The Cyclone Fuel Saver $39.95 Save 15% on fuel"... didn't you rant about that one already ?

]]> by: Jax184 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2086 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:41:26 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2086 If nothing else, accepting his offer of free pills will cost him some money. Like clicking on web ads run by unpleasant companies. Probably not much money, but every bit helps. If nothing else, accepting his offer of free pills will cost him some money. Like clicking on web ads run by unpleasant companies. Probably not much money, but every bit helps.

]]> by: furrfu http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2085 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:46:36 +0000 http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/13/the-best-firepower-can-manage/#comment-2085 Just a thought: take him up on his offer of some free pills, then give them to some organisation with an engine test setup and see if they can discover anything? :-) Just a thought: take him up on his offer of some free pills, then give them to some organisation with an engine test setup and see if they can discover anything? :-)

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