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	<title>Comments on: Magic hangover pills!</title>
	<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/</link>
	<description>the blog that is not dansdata.com</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Daniel Rutter</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-3543</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-3543</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sounds like some very simplistic judgements being made about a product &amp;amp; company that seem very sound &amp;amp; have a lot of credibility.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh huh.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Why not actually go to the web site &amp;amp; look at the ingredients &amp;amp; read the info first hand???&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh... that's what I did. Do you think I just made the ingredients list up?

&lt;blockquote&gt;The enzymes work mainly on the liver,&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Only if they make it into the bloodstream. If you eat them, you'll just digest them, like most other complex molecules you eat.

(Number of atoms in an &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ethanol&lt;/a&gt; molecule: Nine. Number of atoms in an &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dehydrogenase&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;alcohol dehydrogenase&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ladh.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;molecule&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;b&gt;Thousands&lt;/b&gt;.)

If they're going to do anything, orally administered enzymes therefore have to do it to the alcohol with which they are sharing your GI tract, before the alcohol makes it to the bloodstream and before your own stomach acid and digestive enzymes have time to break the other enzymes down.

Had you read the other comments, you would know this. But that might interfere with your own very well-thought-out and entirely non-simplistic &quot;judgements&quot;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Taking half a glass of water every hour will also help to dillute &amp;amp; disperse any of the broken down alchol.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Taken literally, this statement is meaningless. Why would you care whether alcohol that's already been &quot;broken down&quot; is &quot;dispersed&quot; or not?

Taking a more charitable interpretation, drinking water along with your booze will help your hangover by itself, but moderate dilution of booze will, if anything, &lt;b&gt;accelerate&lt;/b&gt; absorption of the alcohol.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Rockeby Biomed ... have a range of ground breaking new products.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Do they? Let's have a look!

Well, they've got PePP, plus &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rockeby.com/products_CanDia5.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a treatment&lt;/a&gt; for thrush, and test kits &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rockeby.com/products_OraQuick.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;for HIV&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rockeby.com/products_AvianFlu.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bird flu&lt;/a&gt;. Those don't look especially ground-breaking to me, but what the hey.

They've also, however, got &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rockeby.com/products_Syscan3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a treatment&lt;/a&gt; for &quot;Systemic Candidiasis&quot;, a disease that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA125503&quot;&gt;even Doctor Weil&lt;/a&gt; calls an &quot;unfounded diagnosis&quot;. If you've actually got yeast in your blood you're going to be &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungemia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;very gravely ill&lt;/a&gt;, not buying some over-the-counter remedy because you're getting a lot of colds and feel a bit run-down.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Pepp pill have been proven to work...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

By whom? How? When?

Has anybody, anywhere, &lt;b&gt;ever&lt;/b&gt; shown oral administration of alcohol dehydrogenase to be of value?

And, once again - what on earth is the point of taking something that'll eat the alcohol in your stomach, if you're not a secret agent who needs to drink and stay sharp, or something?

A pill that clears alcohol and congeners and nasty metabolites from your system when the night is over would unquestionably be handy. And if it were possible for the enzymes to pass undamaged into the bloodstream, they might perhaps then do some good. But we know for a fact that they will not do that.

So what we're left with is a pill that only even offers the &lt;i&gt;possibility&lt;/i&gt; of eating some of the alcohol before it makes it to your bloodstream. Which, clearly, will do nothing that just drinking less in the first place wouldn't do.

If you're not going to get the fun of the drug, why take it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Sounds like some very simplistic judgements being made about a product &amp; company that seem very sound &amp; have a lot of credibility.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Uh huh.</p>
	<blockquote><p>Why not actually go to the web site &amp; look at the ingredients &amp; read the info first hand???</p></blockquote>
	<p>Uh... that's what I did. Do you think I just made the ingredients list up?</p>
	<blockquote><p>The enzymes work mainly on the liver,</p></blockquote>
	<p>Only if they make it into the bloodstream. If you eat them, you'll just digest them, like most other complex molecules you eat.</p>
	<p>(Number of atoms in an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol" rel="nofollow">ethanol</a> molecule: Nine. Number of atoms in an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dehydrogenase" rel="nofollow">alcohol dehydrogenase</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ladh.jpg" rel="nofollow">molecule</a>: <b>Thousands</b>.)</p>
	<p>If they're going to do anything, orally administered enzymes therefore have to do it to the alcohol with which they are sharing your GI tract, before the alcohol makes it to the bloodstream and before your own stomach acid and digestive enzymes have time to break the other enzymes down.</p>
	<p>Had you read the other comments, you would know this. But that might interfere with your own very well-thought-out and entirely non-simplistic "judgements".</p>
	<blockquote><p>Taking half a glass of water every hour will also help to dillute &amp; disperse any of the broken down alchol.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Taken literally, this statement is meaningless. Why would you care whether alcohol that's already been "broken down" is "dispersed" or not?</p>
	<p>Taking a more charitable interpretation, drinking water along with your booze will help your hangover by itself, but moderate dilution of booze will, if anything, <b>accelerate</b> absorption of the alcohol.</p>
	<blockquote><p>Rockeby Biomed ... have a range of ground breaking new products.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Do they? Let's have a look!</p>
	<p>Well, they've got PePP, plus <a href="http://www.rockeby.com/products_CanDia5.html" rel="nofollow">a treatment</a> for thrush, and test kits <a href="http://www.rockeby.com/products_OraQuick.html" rel="nofollow">for HIV</a> and <a href="http://www.rockeby.com/products_AvianFlu.html" rel="nofollow">bird flu</a>. Those don't look especially ground-breaking to me, but what the hey.</p>
	<p>They've also, however, got <a href="http://www.rockeby.com/products_Syscan3.html" rel="nofollow">a treatment</a> for "Systemic Candidiasis", a disease that <a href="http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA125503">even Doctor Weil</a> calls an "unfounded diagnosis". If you've actually got yeast in your blood you're going to be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungemia" rel="nofollow">very gravely ill</a>, not buying some over-the-counter remedy because you're getting a lot of colds and feel a bit run-down.</p>
	<blockquote><p>Pepp pill have been proven to work...</p></blockquote>
	<p>By whom? How? When?</p>
	<p>Has anybody, anywhere, <b>ever</b> shown oral administration of alcohol dehydrogenase to be of value?</p>
	<p>And, once again - what on earth is the point of taking something that'll eat the alcohol in your stomach, if you're not a secret agent who needs to drink and stay sharp, or something?</p>
	<p>A pill that clears alcohol and congeners and nasty metabolites from your system when the night is over would unquestionably be handy. And if it were possible for the enzymes to pass undamaged into the bloodstream, they might perhaps then do some good. But we know for a fact that they will not do that.</p>
	<p>So what we're left with is a pill that only even offers the <i>possibility</i> of eating some of the alcohol before it makes it to your bloodstream. Which, clearly, will do nothing that just drinking less in the first place wouldn't do.</p>
	<p>If you're not going to get the fun of the drug, why take it?
</p>
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		<title>by: affgar</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-3542</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-3542</guid>
					<description>Sounds like some very simplistic judgements being made about a product &amp;amp; company that seem very sound &amp;amp; have a lot of credibility.
Why not actually go to the web site &amp;amp; look at the ingredients &amp;amp; read the info first hand???
The enzymes work mainly on the liver, though i am sure it would be processing alcohol at many stages within your blood, stomach, tissue mass &amp;amp; bodily organs. Taking half a glass of water every hour will also help to dillute &amp;amp; disperse any of the broken down alchol.
Rockeby Biomed is a singapore based Biomed company that has been around for many years. Just recently it received funding from the Singaporean Government. 
Rockeby is currently in the process of getting TGA approval for Pepp. 
They have a range of ground breaking new products. Pepp is really only a diversification &amp;amp; a lucky break through it seems. 
They have developed &amp;amp; improved new testing kits for avian bird flu, Candidiasis, Vulvovaginal Candidiasis, HIV. 

http://www.rockeby.com/ Check them out for yourself.

Please dont just bag people &amp;amp; products without any real conviction or just creating simplistic answers to complex processes &amp;amp; reactions that you have not studied.
Pepp pill have been proven to work.... if you cant afford them dont buy them.  =) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sounds like some very simplistic judgements being made about a product &amp; company that seem very sound &amp; have a lot of credibility.<br />
Why not actually go to the web site &amp; look at the ingredients &amp; read the info first hand???<br />
The enzymes work mainly on the liver, though i am sure it would be processing alcohol at many stages within your blood, stomach, tissue mass &amp; bodily organs. Taking half a glass of water every hour will also help to dillute &amp; disperse any of the broken down alchol.<br />
Rockeby Biomed is a singapore based Biomed company that has been around for many years. Just recently it received funding from the Singaporean Government.<br />
Rockeby is currently in the process of getting TGA approval for Pepp.<br />
They have a range of ground breaking new products. Pepp is really only a diversification &amp; a lucky break through it seems.<br />
They have developed &amp; improved new testing kits for avian bird flu, Candidiasis, Vulvovaginal Candidiasis, HIV. </p>
	<p><a href='http://www.rockeby.com/' rel='nofollow'>http://www.rockeby.com/</a> Check them out for yourself.</p>
	<p>Please dont just bag people &amp; products without any real conviction or just creating simplistic answers to complex processes &amp; reactions that you have not studied.<br />
Pepp pill have been proven to work.... if you cant afford them dont buy them.  =)
</p>
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		<title>by: crazee_hylton</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-2370</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:19:43 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-2370</guid>
					<description>It actually says on the website how many need to be taken. &quot;2 before and 2 after help with the morning after&quot; In my public speaking class, we were told to &quot;come up with a product and market it to our class&quot;. Our group decided to do something similar to this, a pill you could take after your night of partying so you could drive home. We had no idea that other people were having the same foolish idea. haha. We know that there is no such thing that could diminish the effects of alcohol within an hour, we just thought it would be cool. And its a great thing for our class, cause we have our &quot;audience&quot; in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It actually says on the website how many need to be taken. "2 before and 2 after help with the morning after" In my public speaking class, we were told to "come up with a product and market it to our class". Our group decided to do something similar to this, a pill you could take after your night of partying so you could drive home. We had no idea that other people were having the same foolish idea. haha. We know that there is no such thing that could diminish the effects of alcohol within an hour, we just thought it would be cool. And its a great thing for our class, cause we have our "audience" in mind.
</p>
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		<title>by: ming_of_mongo</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1874</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1874</guid>
					<description>Zarquon, you're correct (enzymes are catalysts).  However we're talking about a non-static environment here.  Once the pills are swallowed, it will take between 15 minutes and 2 hours for the majority of the enzyme that was ingested to be inactivated due to chemical inactivation.  Worse than that, you need to have the alcohol actually *in* your stomach at the same time as the enzyme is there - meaning they're only possibly useful if you take them *with* the wine/beer/spirits you're drinking.  Taking the tablets hours later will do pretty much nothing.

Also, with respect to alcohol metabolism, the enzymes used (alcohol- and aldehyde- dehydrogenase) are both saturable (ie. can only cope with a certain amount of alcohol per hour), plus compete to metabolise other ingested compounds.  (The famous one being methanol, with which ethanol competes for metabolism).

The rate-limited nature of alcohol metabolism (10g alcohol per hour) means you'd need to add a significant amount of enzyme to metabolise a gastric &quot;load&quot; of alcohol in quick enough time, prior to the alcohol all being absorbed.

ie. to metabolise 2 standard drinks you'd need to have both twice the amount of alcohol dehydrogenase that's actually in your liver, present in your stomach.  This assumes alcohol sits in your stomach for a full 1 hour, and that you take the tablets simultaneously.  If you assume the alcohol starts being absorbed much more quickly (eg. takes only 1/2 an hour transit time in stomach), then you need 4 times as much alcohol dehydrogenase as is present in your liver.

These pills would start getting fairly big pretty quickly in order to be useful.  The above doesn't take into account inactivation of the enzyme by the gastric environment, nor the fact that this catalysis is taking place in a low pH which may not favour the process as much as the neutral environment of the liver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Zarquon, you're correct (enzymes are catalysts).  However we're talking about a non-static environment here.  Once the pills are swallowed, it will take between 15 minutes and 2 hours for the majority of the enzyme that was ingested to be inactivated due to chemical inactivation.  Worse than that, you need to have the alcohol actually *in* your stomach at the same time as the enzyme is there - meaning they're only possibly useful if you take them *with* the wine/beer/spirits you're drinking.  Taking the tablets hours later will do pretty much nothing.</p>
	<p>Also, with respect to alcohol metabolism, the enzymes used (alcohol- and aldehyde- dehydrogenase) are both saturable (ie. can only cope with a certain amount of alcohol per hour), plus compete to metabolise other ingested compounds.  (The famous one being methanol, with which ethanol competes for metabolism).</p>
	<p>The rate-limited nature of alcohol metabolism (10g alcohol per hour) means you'd need to add a significant amount of enzyme to metabolise a gastric "load" of alcohol in quick enough time, prior to the alcohol all being absorbed.</p>
	<p>ie. to metabolise 2 standard drinks you'd need to have both twice the amount of alcohol dehydrogenase that's actually in your liver, present in your stomach.  This assumes alcohol sits in your stomach for a full 1 hour, and that you take the tablets simultaneously.  If you assume the alcohol starts being absorbed much more quickly (eg. takes only 1/2 an hour transit time in stomach), then you need 4 times as much alcohol dehydrogenase as is present in your liver.</p>
	<p>These pills would start getting fairly big pretty quickly in order to be useful.  The above doesn't take into account inactivation of the enzyme by the gastric environment, nor the fact that this catalysis is taking place in a low pH which may not favour the process as much as the neutral environment of the liver.
</p>
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		<title>by: Zarquon</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1858</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1858</guid>
					<description>I'm not an expert on chemistry but isn't the point about enzymes that they are catalysts and are not consumed by the reactions they promote. In this case the minimal amount of enzymes in the pill may be no more than is necessary.
Without doing the quantitative chemistry, I don't think you can say they have too little active ingredient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I'm not an expert on chemistry but isn't the point about enzymes that they are catalysts and are not consumed by the reactions they promote. In this case the minimal amount of enzymes in the pill may be no more than is necessary.<br />
Without doing the quantitative chemistry, I don't think you can say they have too little active ingredient.
</p>
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		<title>by: ming_of_mongo</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1851</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1851</guid>
					<description>Of course, if the dehydrogenase actually refers to a blend of both alcohol dehydrogenase *and* acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, then they'd have a modestly useful product.  Alcohol detoxification via these two enzymes does occur in the stomach (in men only - women lack the enzymes in their stomachs.  Both genders, however, do the majority of metabolism in the liver.  However, this difference is the reason why men can generallly drink more). Anyway, if you had a product containing both enzymes in useful quantities, it would probably allow you to drink more Grange Hermitage than usual before leaving the pub for the night....

Of course, as you've suggested, it's more likely they've only included one of the dehydrogenase compounds.

Another possibility, rather than them having included alcohol dehydrogenase in their product, is if they'd included solely aldehyde degrogenase instead.  As it's the acetaldehyde which makes you feel so awful when you've been drinking heavily, additional enzyme could at least help make you feel a it better. It would do nothing, though, to hasten the removal of alcohol from your blood stream per se.  In any case, I'm not sure if this would be viable given that once alcohol has been metabolised to acetaldehyde in the liver, I don't think gastric metabolism would play a major role in detoxifying acetaldehyde to acetic acid.

Bottom line: if someone can come up with a pill that contains both enzymes in useful quantities - I'd be willing to bet that it would have some effect.  That doesn't seem to be the case here though, does it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Of course, if the dehydrogenase actually refers to a blend of both alcohol dehydrogenase *and* acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, then they'd have a modestly useful product.  Alcohol detoxification via these two enzymes does occur in the stomach (in men only - women lack the enzymes in their stomachs.  Both genders, however, do the majority of metabolism in the liver.  However, this difference is the reason why men can generallly drink more). Anyway, if you had a product containing both enzymes in useful quantities, it would probably allow you to drink more Grange Hermitage than usual before leaving the pub for the night....</p>
	<p>Of course, as you've suggested, it's more likely they've only included one of the dehydrogenase compounds.</p>
	<p>Another possibility, rather than them having included alcohol dehydrogenase in their product, is if they'd included solely aldehyde degrogenase instead.  As it's the acetaldehyde which makes you feel so awful when you've been drinking heavily, additional enzyme could at least help make you feel a it better. It would do nothing, though, to hasten the removal of alcohol from your blood stream per se.  In any case, I'm not sure if this would be viable given that once alcohol has been metabolised to acetaldehyde in the liver, I don't think gastric metabolism would play a major role in detoxifying acetaldehyde to acetic acid.</p>
	<p>Bottom line: if someone can come up with a pill that contains both enzymes in useful quantities - I'd be willing to bet that it would have some effect.  That doesn't seem to be the case here though, does it...
</p>
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		<title>by: alphacheez</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1849</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1849</guid>
					<description>My guess would be that the dehydrogenase used in the pills may be acetaldehyde dehydrogenase.  That might then help people who have too little of it.  That's REALLY giving this company the benefit of the doubt though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My guess would be that the dehydrogenase used in the pills may be acetaldehyde dehydrogenase.  That might then help people who have too little of it.  That's REALLY giving this company the benefit of the doubt though.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ubertakter</title>
		<link>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1835</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/08/magic-hangover-pills/#comment-1835</guid>
					<description>I would just like to point out that amylase does not break starches down into alcohol.  It actually breaks starches down into sugars.  What kind of sugar depends which amylase.  Yeasts can then turn those sugars into alcohol.  I don't think yeasts can survive in the gastric environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would just like to point out that amylase does not break starches down into alcohol.  It actually breaks starches down into sugars.  What kind of sugar depends which amylase.  Yeasts can then turn those sugars into alcohol.  I don't think yeasts can survive in the gastric environment.
</p>
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